I do agree with u on dat Why. Y NASCAR? Y not D1 or DTM? but looks like there's finally damage, I hope the cars sound are real, though.

I guess some fans asked for it and they delayed so much that they thought they might as well put in nascar. They just used the same engine while getting cars that handle the same way and oval tracks that they already had.

They already have a drift mode and some D1 cars.

personally i'd probably never play nascar except if it's necessary for easy money or advancing. I'd rather they have touge tracks like forza 1 and enthusia did, D1 style tandem race competitions, and more tracks based off good courses which haven't been used like ebisu.

I can definitely see it as a profitablity move - think of how many more people they can get to purchase their game by including so many various genres of racing... still doesn't make it right.

It is really goin' to be hard to decide with which console to go with with FORZA 3 coming out too...

I went with 360 for now because it's cheaper and has Ninja Gaiden 2 and Dead or Alive. So far it's been ok and I can always get a ps3 later(eventually).

damn that game looked beautiful.... wish i had a PS3

Grand tourismo got dumb after number 3 and from here on out it will always be dumb, Forza is dumb, theyre all wannabe sims, LFS and R factor win.

sorry but, they shouldnt label themselves as sims when their physics are super awfull.

But we dont know how well forza 3 or GT5 handles. Prologue was already vastly superior to GT4 even though i only played for a few minutes on a controller. It may work out all it's bugs and imagine those games with physics as good or better than LFS. They would be completely superior, since LFS only has about 8 cars and tracks without many real ones or much customization, and old graphics.

GT5 looks way better than forza 3 graphics wise. I saw the trailer on gametrailers

ive played GT5 on controller, does that weird lack of forward movement whilst the wheels are spinning like GT4 and it doesnt over steer soon enough or enough to be a sim, Forza i havent played, but by watching vids, the steering is too quick and the cars flinch and change angle alot whilst drifting, also they dont really prove themselves well be only having a 240 degree steering wheel.

true but everything always has flaws. LFS has bugs like going through a barrier at times, and not really realistic damage. You also have to consider how little we've seen of forza 3 and GT5 is still in it's development stage possibly working out it's minor bugs slowly while they add content.

I dont blame them for having certain flaws, just think alot of these games label themselfes as sims when they really arent. LFS cant be called a sim once your on dirt, very unrealistic dirt physic IMO.

I'm definitely goin' to anxiously wait for both of these to be released. There is two big things weighing on my mind about these two games: customization and damage.

I see GT5 will have damage but how much customization will there be? FM3 will have customization but will it have damage?

FM3 will have damage, you can also flip the car over for the first time. Also some features like 1 button driving I dont think too many ppl on this forums would care about.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/50202.html

Im really hoping the new Kaido comes out soon before i loose interest.

i'm pretty sure u won't lose interest when they announce a new one and it looks good. Everyone lose interest in some stuff, but regain interest when theres something good coming out. We definetly need a new good touge game.

speaking of console sims and kaido, i find it really ironic how last generation games like forza, GT, Enthusia boasted so much about how realistic they are despite so many flaws while Kaido managed to come along and beat them all, without trying. It's also so much more fun than all of them that after playing for awhile you probably won't want to go back to them. To this day, TXRD2 & TXR3is still the most fun, and addictive racer. Might not be the most realistic but it never tried in the 1st place. Even TXR3 can be considered more realistic, tire wear, way better slip physics than GT4, engine heat(thats the only time it was used in a game I know of). But it's also ironic that no matter how bad GT4 was in the simulation department, it gets praised by reviewers for it's realism. One video even mentioned that they managed to make the gameplay better than GT4 somehow, and I was thinking I can probably do that myself without trying.

I guess it's easy to figure out that most ppl that review games don't really know anything about real cars and are not real enthusists, or know anything about the most basic drift mechanics.

If only we can get more of those console sim nuts to try this game.

Im pretty much over Kaido, not to sound braggy, but im too good , i dont crash, spin out, ect ect, so its boring for me, im gonna be playing kaido for most of today, have nothing better to do, LFS is starting to bore me, Becuase of the lack of cars and tracks., also im a keybord drifter, so its difficult and anoying, need a wheel.

I miss the days when racing games were just racing, not all these crappy "sims" out on the market today. TXRD2 is more or less the best mountain racing sim I've ever seen. I used to like Gran Turismo 4 but the endurance races are what made me buy a Gameshark, and indirectly, find TXRD. Once TXRD2 came out, I knew I had to get it.

You sir. Are uneducated. I've been racing on LFS and rFactor for 2 years now with a G25.

Forza is a perfectly acceptable sim, you should play it. Gran Turismo. Well that decided it would stay in ninetees.

some sim nuts's opinions on GT5P vs Forza 2. Basically they said it was fun and catching up to real race sims. but forza 2 was better in their opinion.

wonder what they'll say about the full version of gt5 and forza3. you might want to skip the ads, and intro since they make the vid long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M5gQIKkYYA

NASCAR has lost it's partnership with EA Sports, which means there is no NASCAR sims coming anymore.
Sony picked up that, as well as a WRC deal as well.
I do like NASCAR, but the games were seriously lacking in the last couple of years.
Ther is damage in GT2, but only in the multiplayer and arcade mode, but it really had no effect whatsoever.
I consider this to be the king of racing sims.

Gran Turismo is a perfectly acceptable sim series, too.
What's wrong with it?
I've never seen that explained.
I like Forza, but I'm still a GT addict
How are the physics awful though? Explain.
I didn't like GT3 because there wasn't enough cars to choose from, and the Suzuki Escudo with the Stage 4 turbo was a bastard to drive.
I guess driftoner is calling the ID Trueno dumb, then.
I found it today in GT4.

GT4's physics sucked asses.

I still think Forza is unrealistic, but ive only played number 1.
Also, most of the players ive met from forza (and no offense to forzaérs here) were troll bitches.

Well i'm sure people are gonna say some of the following:

Handling isnt affected by slope of the road, for example, if the track is banked, and your rear wheels start to spin, your car wont start to slide downwards... idk how to explain it but that becomes a major factor of "GT isnt real" here

Also, its argued that FR's handle not enough like FRs...

I have to say, out of all the sim games i've tried, i like GT the most. Forza is a bit more arcadey than sim-feeling, and idk...enthusia is good, but it seems like all the AWDs do is understeer (and that may be what happens IRL...i dunno)...Enthusia just feels slow, even when you reach speeds of 150+ MPH...I'd like to try LFS or R Factor...they seem to be moar real

I can show u my review on gamespot where i specifically compared GT4's physics to enthusia, txrd2, live for speed, and even TXR3 was better(not counting the lack of force feedback).

GT4's physics were just bad.

the car understeers weirdly no matter how you tune it. oversteer just feels weird. handbrake gives the car weird effects. elevations and bumps do pretty much nothing to handling. countersteer feels really bad. There's hardly any difference between MR, FF, 4wd, etc cars since they all have the stupit snap understeer. You can jam on the brakes really hard and the tires never lock. the cars never want to sway no matter how much you make the front tire traction, and sometimes just spins without being able to recover weirdly.

I can go on all day.

even the worst mods for rFactor have better physics than GT4...